The Hybrid Hospitality Podcast will examine the trends that are transforming hospitality and explore what the future of the industry might look like.
In this episode, Rosie chats to Jonathan Schiff, founder of Gnômadic, a luxury coliving company in Singapore.
Scroll down to read the transcript of this podcast episode…
Introduction: You are listening to The Hybrid Hospitality Podcast.
If you’re interested in the trends that are transforming hospitality and want to explore what the future of the industry might look like, then you’re in the right place. This podcast is brought to you by Stay the Night, a creative marketing agency, working with hospitality businesses around the world who are changing the way people stay, work and play.
In this episode, Rosie chats to Jonathan Schiff, founder of Gnômadic, a luxury coliving company in Singapore. With hospitality, sustainability, and community at its core, Gnômadic focus on providing beautifully designed homes in Singapore’s most sought after neighbourhoods.
Central to the Gnômadic experience is their ever evolving lifestyle program, which features thought-provoking events and activities designed to connect and inspire their residents. Jonathan’s background is in investment and private equity, including co-managing the Schiff family office with investments in real estate, hospitality, finance, TMT, healthcare and space tech.
In this episode, we hear how Gnômadic curate their communities, why giving back is central to the brand, and what makes coliving an attractive prospect for investors.
Hi Jonathan, welcome to the hybrid hospitality podcast. So first of all, can you tell me a little bit about the inspiration behind Gnômadic?
Yeah, sure. So what happened was, you know, I come from a real estate hospitality background and in the fourth quarter towards the end of 2018, a number of companies in co-living approached me about either investing, advising them or somehow getting involved. And so I just decided to take a year and travel around the world and stay in a bunch of places and kind of get to learn the space and see if there was an opportunity there. And what I found and subsequently doing research on it was, there is a there’s a pretty deep desire for people to connect. And really this is what, one of the primary key pillars of co-living is.
So, you know, people are looking for more out of their residential experience these days, and it’s not only just like, Hey, I want a nice space or this type of thing. It’s really, I want some connection with other interesting inspirational people. I want to hopefully do some fun, cool activities with them. And, you know, maybe you’ve been stuff that’s out of the box that I would like to do normally in my life, but I just don’t have the time to do so, or to time to figure it out. And so we kind of started nomadic based on those three premises, number one, people want some nice spacious, like aesthetically pleasing homes. They want to live with people that are going to inspire and, you know, kind of help them to grow. And then they want to do a lot of cool, interesting stuff that you know, we help program. So it’s, it’s, it’s more, it’s more of a lifestyle than just, you know, a place to live if you will.
Yeah, absolutely. And so I was going to ask about – because community is obviously one of the central things of co-living and of gnômadic – and so how do you facilitate that sense of community and the genuine connection between residents on site?
Yeah, so, obviously, you know, there’s pre COVID, there’s post COVID. I think it’s starts with before people come to live with us, we really get to know them what are their experiences, their aspirations you know, their cultural sensitivities, those types of things, and, you know, what are they looking for out of the, the co-living experience?
And then we’re able to you know, really figure out if we’re able to service what they’re looking for. And so through that process, we’ve gathered a pretty interesting inspirational cohort of people. And what’s really helped us. I mean, you know, prior to COVID coming into effect, we, we would have like parties and opportunities for people to get together. During our lockdown here in Singapore we did a lot of online stuff and since we’ve kind of come out of that, you know, there’s restrictions on gathering sizes.
We’ve had more intimate events and whatnot, but that’s really helping the people to bond, so really in terms of the connection and whatnot, it really starts with the curation of the community. And fortunately we have people that are all like very interesting and have a variety of backgrounds and experiences. But what they, Sharon commonality is, you know, they’re very altruistic, very culturally aware and sensitive. Most of them had lived in multiples jurisdictions throughout their lives. So that’s kind of a core base of just getting some good people to live together. And then they kind of it kind of grows from there.
Yeah. So typically coliving is being positioned as something that appeals to younger demographics, but I know that’s not been the trend you’ve necessarily seen with your residents at Gnômadic?
Yeah. In this kind of, this kind of came up, you know, during 2019 my year abroad, if you will where I was kind of like just spending a lot of time learning about the space and I talked to a number of people Hey, would this be something that would interest you? And a lot of times the answers came back is yeah. You know, the concept is interesting, but you know, perhaps the product type or the experience really doesn’t fit my style because, you know, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve had a little bit more experienced in my life and in terms of career or personal and, you know, we are towards people that are a little bit older. And so they, they thought that a lot of the existing products that were out there right now didn’t really catered to what they were looking for, but there was that need.
And it’s, it’s kind of interesting this whole sense of, I mean, maybe it doesn’t become co-living maybe it’s more community living or something like that. I’ve always been trying to figure out a new way of referring to it. But I think that this could be something that where different groups of different people kind of gathering communities and live together accordingly and support each other accordingly. I mean, you know, I’ve got three young kids, I mean, to be honest with you while we’re in Singapore, so we move, fortunately we can have help here in terms of raising, but if there was a co-living building that was, you know, all families and, you know, one, one couple wants to go out to dinner on a Friday night and they kind of dropped the kids off at the neighbors and this and that. And like, that’s just the accepted norm or, you know, people are talking about more like an evolution of assisted living where it’s, co-living for like a senior population or this. So I think there’s going to be a lot of different populations that can really attached to this form of living. It’s just, we happen to be addressing a little bit of an older demographic if you will. Right.
I think that’s really interesting because I think over the last 10 months, or however long it’s been, that feels like 10 years since we’ve been in this pandemic. Everybody’s been isolated. I know here in the UK it’s not been just one demographic and I think it’s interesting. Do you think after this period it’s going to lead to an increase in interest in coliving and things like that because of this isolation we have all felt?
Yeah, so we saw this. So we had, we had we had our lockdown in Singapore and during that peak period people were reaching out. In fact, in fact, we had somebody that basically sent us a check, like, she’s like, I don’t care if you have a place or this or that, but here’s, here’s a check please just don’t forget about me and this and that. And she’s, she’s wonderful by the way, but you know, not only that one particular person, but also a couple of other people, they came to us and they said, listen, I, by nature, I’m an introverted person. So I’m not, you know, the social butterfly that’s going to go out every Friday, Saturday, Thursday night. But at the same time being locked by myself in my house for like three, four, six months, it was just a little too much.
And in Singapore we only had a two month lock down actually. So I think that was something else that we were really trying to appeal to was you know, this less traditional audience, that’s people that are more introverted, so they don’t have to feel like they have to be, you know, on point socially all the time or, you know yeah, we’ve been going after some of these other like less traditional populations, if you will. I mean, for some reason we’re skewing more female centric as opposed to male centric. And yeah, that’s, that’s how it’s working out.
It’s something we really stress with our own clients. It’s about finding the right kind of person and not just anybody to get through the door. I think that’s something that’s even more important in coliving because if you want to create that great experience, you want residents to gel. So, how do you target the right people through your marketing for Gnômadic?
Yeah. Well, one of the things that we do is like, if you go to our website or one of the things that we talk about you know, it’s very values-based and listen I’m, Oh, I just turned 47. And this is all my COVID white hair, so I’m 47. I’ve kinda hit a point in my life where professionally I’ve been very fortunate and it was like, okay, let’s do something, but it’s not solely driven. Like, Hey, you know, let’s build this as quick as possible and have the biggest company and, you know, hopefully make the most money as quick as possible. It’s more like, okay, let’s do something that’s a little more organic and we kind of shepherd this along, but it’s also very values based. So and even the, a lot of the programming we do is around that. Or so two of the biggest things are really about environmental sustainability and you know, social service, if you will.
So in Singapore, we’ve set up a lot of events that are about social service. People come live with us, every person that lives with us, we make a donation to the rainforest trust that goes out and buys rainforests and preserves them for forever basically. And that’s one thing we’re like, okay, if you’re, if you really appeal to that. And then obviously one thing is in terms of the spaces and the space allocation and the costs, that’s something that’s, you know, for better, for worse is kind of something that can be an inhibitor a little bit. That being said, I mean, you know, if somebody is just coming out of well, if you know, it’s, it’s a little bit of an older demographic, so people want an environment that’s a little more laid back and whatnot, but it just so happens that the pricing also kind of creates that a little bit.
But then it’s really just communication with people. And, and when we meet people the first thing we do is we call them, we talk to them, we haven’t exchanged with them. We, when we give property tours a little bit, it’s like, okay, here’s the place, but it’s much more about, Hey, you know, what are your interests? What are you doing? And we also talk about the way that we look at things. So I guess that’s a way that we’re really kind of selecting that audience or people are self-selecting us, if you will.
Yeah. So it’s almost a back and forth rather than one way.
That’s one feedback that I’ve gotten is people really appreciate the fact that, you know, our process isn’t as trad transactional. So we’re not saying, okay, here’s a place, great sign it, give us a security deposit. We’re done. It’s, it’s really a process of getting to know people. And especially as people are coming in from overseas, some of our residents, we spend a lot of time getting to know them before they get here. And even in some, in some situations helping them in terms of you know, when they get on the ground and, you know, kind of acclimating to Singapore, if you will.
I really liked that because I think it then goes away from, you’re just someone selling to someone. Instead it feels like your friend is helping them as a brand, figure out if this is right for them. And if it’s a good fit, that’s really great.
I was going to mention giving back because actually I think how this came about, we did a blog post at the end of last year about hospitality, businesses and coliving spaces who were given back in 2020. So, why was that personally important to you to embed that in your business plan?
Well? So it’s a personal passion if you will. So that’s one thing, and then it was also like, Hey, why don’t we try this out and see if this is something that resonates with people? I mean, we’re always listening to the market for feedback, if you will. And it just so happens. It is something that really resonates with people. And so it’s been this positive feedback loop. Like one of our most popular events was on a Saturday morning. We went to one of the food banks and we basically packaged up a bunch of boxes that we put on pallets. Like everybody basically did, like, we will, well, we’re working in a warehouse. So, you know, all of our residents like basically were warehouse workers for like three, four hours and people loved it. I mean, the, the one chain is we couldn’t all go out to lunch afterwards because of social distancing, but people love that.
Or, you know we had something that was like, where we did a run and then people like gauge their run. And then that money went to charity and people had a lot of fun with that. So on the one hand they were doing good, but at the same time, like, you know, a couple of them, one on a 10 K walk together and they became really good friends and this and that. So it just emanates from, I’m kind of at this point in my life, why I’ve kind of grown up this way, where it’s like, Hey, just get back. You know, knock on wood. I’ve been a very lucky guy for a very long time. So it’s just recognising those blessings and trying to get back accordingly. And it also helps create a sense of community. I mean, we, we, we in the city, we’re part of this, how can we help this? We live on this planet, we’re part of this. How can we help, like our small community help a bigger community?
Yeah. And I think that’s been like really nice to see across the industry and also really important at this time. I think it’s something that consumers are valuing a lot more. They want to know where they’re putting their money, if those businesses aligned with their own values and I think, yeah, it’s been great to see.
So just to go back to the beginning, so you launched gnômadic in January, 2020 – I believe just before COVID-19 really hit. So, what was the impact of that and how did you adapt so quickly from having just opened?
Well, fortunately we hadn’t built like this old legacy structure but really what happened with COVID. And it’s still, it’s still a lesson because obviously there are still restrictions. But it was really useful for us because people went into lockdown and they were forced to live with each other. And so we realized like, okay first of all, the curation that we’re doing in terms of our community, that’s that part seemed to be really working because we didn’t have many such situations where people didn’t get along with each other. Thank God. And then, you know, how are people really, really using the space? So instead of saying, okay, you know, 12, 14, 16 hours a day, they’re outside, they come back, they go to sleep, they take a shower, they leave, they leave the house again. It’s like no, 24 hours a day here they are.
And really how are they using the spaces? And then, you know, what are the things we can do to really engender community? And what do people really value? I mean, you know, we had a, we had a cooking class because literally, and I’m going to laugh because a few of them were friends of mines before they even live with us. But a few of the guys just didn’t know how to cook. So we were like, okay, we’re going to, you know, we, we, we got the chef from one of the restaurants that we did a cooking class, like some really basic stuff. But then also things like candle making were really popular. So I think that COVID from a humanity perspective and I hope we don’t lose this. It’s given people the time to kind of slow down a little bit and reassess what’s important life, which is great. So that, that happened to us as a company. And also as individuals. And you know, obviously some of the learnings we’ve gotten from that we’re carrying forward now. And like I said, fortunately, I did like have this crazy, huge legacy business that we built up by just, you know, turning, turning, turning. So that gave us some room to really sit back and reflect on of the assumptions that we made early on.
I think one of the things that’s come out of this period is the acceleration towards remote work and and your largest property Maddow is described as ‘optimized for working from home situations’. And so what opportunities do you think this presents for coliving operators specifically?
So I think what’ll happen is obviously there’s going to have to be a consideration of the living environment and knowing that people are going to be using it more intensively than they have in the past. I mean, it really, one of the things that we went into this thinking about was like, okay, what is the actual uses of the space? And, you know, co-living works out pretty well because, you know, when you have like a single or a couple or this or that, and let’s say they get a studio apartment, they’re never going to use the kitchen all the time. I mean, you know, I lived in China in the late nineties and I had a two bedroom apartment and besides my bedroom, the living room and the bathroom, I maybe use the kitchen once in a while. Otherwise I was out the whole time. So figuring out that optimal use of space, but then taking into consideration that now people are working from home and how do we create those environments where they can do so and feel comfortable and not be on top of each other, if you will. I think that’s a huge opportunity.
And also maybe, maybe there will be a little bit of subsidies from companies for living because now companies are saving a lot of money on office space, if you will. So maybe that’s something that ends up happening.
Yeah, definitely. And other than that, do you see any big opportunities coming in for coliving after this period other than remote working?
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, it’s kind of been gravitating towards it, but I just think more and more people want to connect and they want to have like a community. So, you know, this is, this is an additional community. So at least for us a lot of our residents already have their network of friends. They already have their network of like professional relationships, but they’re saying, Hey, I want to come here. And these are some other people that I may not have known or lived like ever known before. And I want to, I want to augment my personal relationships and my professional relationships with this additional audience. And just the way that we’re curating it. It’s like, it’s kind of a little bit of a different take on how they may traditionally develop their relationships. So I think that’s an opportunity, but, but you know, there’s actually, there’s a great book, but there’s a lot of research on why the city is actually a really efficient.
It’s a, it’s an efficient unit if you will, of having people live together and congregate together and this and that. So obviously right now with COVID, that’s being challenged a little bit, but I think what will happen is people would probably go back to cities because there’s an, as a unit it’s very efficient. And then within those big cities, they’re going to want to look at like finding some special core communities that they can be a part of. So instead of having a city of 10 million people that are just wandering all over the place, you have 10 million cities, but every 10 million person city, but then you have, you know, all these, like sub-communities within that. And that happens a little bit, but co-living changes it because it’s a little more deliberate instead of happenstance, if you will.
I think speaking of fixities then, do you have any plans to expand outside of Singapore in the future?
Yeah, yeah. If I can ever get back on an airplane, actually, it’s funny. I was talking to someone this morning, that’s a recruiter for the real estate industry. And, you know, unfortunately our industry is one where you just have to like go to a place and see something and touch something before you can really make a commitment or roll something out. You almost have to like feel the ground and touch the ground. And so we’re limited at the moment, but for sure Southeast Asia is a very, very, very dynamic region right now. There’s a lot of growth going on. People from all over the world are coming here. And I think we can add a lot of value too, because one of our, our initial inspirations, which we’ve kept with is coming to a new place, coming to a new continent, new country.
We want to help people to acclimate to that. So meet some cool people, learn about the city, do some cool stuff that, that was really a lot of our original vision and a lot of these other cities. I think we could do that even in a very much more value-added way. I mean, Singapore is kind of an easy city to get acclimated to, but there’s other places like Saigon. There’s a number of places in Thailand that are amazing, but it’s just the process of getting on the ground and getting acclimated and learning about cool stuff to do and meeting people. It takes longer in those cities. So we want to help people to get through that process.
Yeah, definitely. And so you mentioned that real estate, and I know that your background is in hospitality and real estate investment, right. So from that perspective, why do you think coliving can be an attractive opportunity for investors?
Sure. It’s just, it’s just a way to if the space is optimized very well and we’re able to add a lot of software, if you will, like a lot of like intangible things that create a lot of value then probably on a per square foot basis, you know, we can some additional yield if you will. So from that perspective, and I think that where we are in the industry, I’ve talked to a number of friends that, you know, they’re, they, they invest in projects in the UK, like student housing projects. And so 10, 15 years ago, student housing from an investor perspective was kind of this very, very, very niche thing. And now it’s, you know, Blackstone’s in the student housing business. And so I think that we’re kind of at that point in co-living if you will.
Yeah. And so if we were to fast forward, say 10 years down the line, what do you think the most significant changes will be in the co-living landscape then? It’s quite a big question.
Yeah. That is, well, first of all, I think it will be much more recognized and it will become a much more viable option for a lot of different individuals, couples, maybe even families. I imagine there’ll be a lot of niche operators that are kind of addressing specific segments. And then hopefully the entire industry will improve in terms of the the community curation. Hopefully that’ll improve the content curation, hopefully that’ll improve and we’ll really be able to add value to people and add value to their, their living experience, if you will like really give them a very cool lifestyle experience.
And so what’s in store for gnômadic for the rest of this year then?
Yeah, that’s a great question. So basically I’m in the process of building the team we’re, we’re actually bringing on some community people some community managers, if you will looking for some more projects in Singapore and, you know, depending on how the landscape works out over the next 12 to 18 months with, you know, vaccine rollouts and do people start traveling and, and do people start moving to different cities again? Obviously we’d like to start looking at other markets too in Southeast Asia to start.
And finally, where’s the first place you’re going to travel when you can allow to get on a plane again then?
Oh my gosh. Well, I don’t know about a plane, so actually, you know, we booked one of these Palm, a cruise to nowhere. I like I’m okay. Let’s I, I, you know, I’ve traveled everywhere, so I’m kind of like, Hey, I can sit still and be fine, but my wife’s a little bit anxious. So we’re doing a cruise to nowhere, which we basically get on a boat and Singapore and we cruise around for three or four days. And then we come back as far as travel. Honestly, you know, my wife is from the cow is next to Hong Kong. It’d be nice to go back there see her family. My mom is in Las Vegas. It’d be nice to see her. I mean, I think that’s more that type of thinking, but if, if you were to talk about just like personally where it’d be great to go either a beach in Thailand or, you know, the mountains of Japan and actually the summer summertime in Japan’s unbelievable too. So that, that would be a top choice.
No, I know. I think I was having the same conversation with my friend the other day. And it was like on the one hand I’d love to be on a beach in the Caribbean, but on the other hand, I’d take, just going like three hours up north in the UK and see my friends, to be honest. I think everyone’s focused on that. Thanks so much for coming on Jonathan. It’s been great to hear.
For those listening who want to find out more about Gnômadic, you can visit their website here, or catch them at @gnomadicworld on Instagram.
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