The Hybrid Hospitality Podcast will examine the trends that are transforming hospitality and explore what the future of the industry might look like.
In this episode, Rosie chats to Mark Fenelon, CEO of Clink Hostels. Clink manages a network of privately-owned backpacker hostels located in some of Europe’s best loved cities.
Clink currently operate two hostels in London and three in Amsterdam, including the recently acquired Ecomama and Cocomama boutique concept hostels. The group also has two new hostels under construction in Dublin and Lisbon.
Scroll down to read the transcript of this podcast episode…
Introduction: You are listening to The Hybrid Hospitality Podcast.
If you’re interested in the trends that are transforming hospitality and want to explore what the future of the industry might look like, then you’re in the right place. This podcast is brought to you by Stay the Night, a creative marketing agency, working with hospitality businesses around the world who are changing the way people stay, work and play.
In this episode, I’ll be speaking with Mark Fenelon, CEO of Clink Hostels. Clink manages a network of privately-owned backpacker hostels located in some of Europe’s best loved cities.
Clink currently operate two hostels in London and three in Amsterdam, including the recently acquired Ecomama and Cocomama boutique concept hostels. The group also has two new hostels under construction in Dublin and Lisbon.
In this episode, we find out about their ‘Shut up and Listen’ campaign, learn how Clink facilitate connection between guests at their sites and discover what Mark thinks the typical hostel will look like five years from now.
Hi Mark. Welcome to The Hybrid Hospitality Podcast. It’s great to have you here today.
Thank you so much for having me and Clink – I’m delighted for the time so I am looking forward to our chat.
Me too! First of all, I’ve just seen that Clink Nords won a couple of awards over on LinkedIn so I just wanted to say well done for that and congratulations.
We are delighted – a huge amount goes to the team because look, I think everyone in hospitality and hostels has had such a hard time and I think we’ve tried to look at what we can control, look at the positives, probably sometimes to distract us from the day-to-day challenges. So yes, we are delighted with the awards. Super delighted.
So how have things been at Clink and how have you adapted your model to the pandemic?
I suppose that everyone’s found it hard. It’s been like the different cycles of life, I guess. First it was the shock and then getting over to shock and then obviously the planning to take a view on how long or short COVID would be. And then the instant changes – our guests weren’t traveling anymore and we had to put in a new health and safety regime.
We had to try and keep the Clink team spirits up, and we had to cut costs like everyone else. We had to have some very hard discussions with suppliers and some of the team as well, which is really, really hard.. The hardest things we’ve ever had to do. But I think equally it was trying to plan a little bit for the future so while I’m trying to give ourselves a bit of hope and to kind of nearly get back into the routine. So I think that was important. And there’s also certain things – I know we’ll touch on our Shut Up and Listen campaign, but it was to say, look, even through all this crap and hardship, there are still things we can do and we should still look to make an impact. I think probably over and above like new systems, we had new online check-in systems. So we’re the first hostel in Europe to go with Goki – that that’s completely keyless all the way from whenever you’re checking online to your dorm room so that was a big thing our Operations Director drove.
There were things like that, but also things like looking at ourselves and questioning what can we do? What do we stand for? And then how we looked after our Clinkies and looking at what can we do. As I said, we did have to make some hard decisions so yeah, it was kind of, it’s like different life stages, but it was trying to keep that positive focus. It was hard at times, but we will all get over it so it was trying to keep looking at the future.
Yeah. I definitely hear that even with Stay the Night – there was a period of reeling and being like, what do we do now? Then you kind of pick yourself up and go, okay, there’s good things that can come out of this. So in ordinary times, one of Clink’s values is around being different in what you create. So, what are the key elements that differentiate Clink from other hostel brands?
I’ll start with what generally differentiates hostels from hotels. It’s all about the experience for most hostels and I think that’s why I’m so confident about the future of hostels. I guess a lot of people probably working in hostels probably ask themselves that question because there’s such a huge gap, not to be a kind of where rectangular box of you know, hotels do it fairly well. But I think there’s a huge market for 18-30s to have different experiences. What Clink does differently? I wouldn’t say that different to a lot of hostels, because I think so many hostels are doing such a brilliant job, but it’s probably about connections and that’s what we’re about. Our vision is bringing people in places together.
We try to build our hostels and really interesting buildings. So if you go to Clink in London, it’s an old police station or magistrates court and in Amsterdam, the site used to be an old laboratory. So it’s kind of building that story… I guess we try to wrap everything as much as we can around the guest. You know, from our buildings, our locations are really important – they have to be central. Maybe that’s not such a huge advantage with COVID, but to be central and close to transport hubs, to how we designed our interiors, all of our buildings are very different, to accommodating different guests. So, some guests may be your traditional backpackers – they want a kitchen because it means they can travel for longer living off less Euros each day, to events, to solo travellers and what we do for them. It’s trying to connect deeper because really, I think that’s why most people choose hostels. They want something different, they want experiences and they want to meet new people. So, I guess all of what we do in our brands and our people, it’s just to enable people to connect either through great locations, really nice design hostel, but that has the right type of facilities for the different guests. I think also it’s reaching into our community. So, there are a few differences in the ways we support our local community. We do annual Amsterdam canal cleanups, the Shut Up and Listen campaign is very much taking that community focus and actually going a lot deeper, a lot of guests want to volunteer and that’s where that came in, they want to give back 6/10. So there’s lots, but I guess it’s how we support artists through Clink Creative, as a programme house, supporting music artists, performing artists bloggers etc. And it’s getting a local feel into the hostels versus anything artificial.
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s going to be key because over the next year, there’s a lot of brands that pay lip service to community and I think consumers are savvy and so they’re going to start seeing who is actually backing up what they say. And so that leads us on nicely – you mentioned the Shut up and Listen campaign. So, that pledges 1000 beds to people volunteering for social causes. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
It’s something we’re very excited about. It came around March time when all the horrendous acts were happening in the US and Black Lives Matter and that kind of horror and kind of incredulity that some people were capable of that. And that got us thinking because in fairness our Clinky staff said, look, where does Clink stand on this? Look, we love working here, but where do we stand? That that got us thinking – I know that came that with the Shut Up and Listen campaign where we asked ourselves, what should a company do? Should a company look to give back to community? How can we help? And if someone says to me, Mark, is this the right time to be thinking about this during a crisis? You know, there’s no one traveling, we’re losing loads of money.. and I said, well, look, sometimes there isn’t ever a good time and yeah, this type of crisis definitely isn’t but let’s get on with it. Let’s do something. So we also surveyed a few thousand of our guests and asked them what they think. And we got over 700 people replying across 36 countries and basically the big, big thing coming out is they don’t feel listened to. The 18-30s feels like society operates at a higher level to them by people who have similar grey hair to mine I guess, but they’re just not in tune with 40% of the population. So it’s leading to frustrations, it’s leading to people feeling a bit helpless of financial change, racial change, climate change, situation change. Because they’re the people who are going to have to live through this bloody thing.
So, 83% of respondents said they found companies weren’t doing enough, full stop. In general, not just the crisis. 72% of respondents actually said they would go with brands that are much more socially responsible, environmental responsible. So I think there’s big consequences for how companies were operated before. I guess also listening and also volunteering is a huge thing. I know Booking.com did a survey and I think 49% of people traveling are socially conscious of where they travel and what they do. I think in the UK survey, there’s 30% of people from 18-30 who would love to volunteer. So we wrapped all that up and came up with the Shut Up and Listen Campaign, we listened to 40% of the population. It’s about okay, shut up and listen and stand up – okay, it’s easy to donate and I’m not saying that it’s not a great noble thing, but it’s easy to do.
It’s easy to have nice words on your website, but what about a bit of follow through, what next happens? So instead of talking and not doing, it’s kind of look, let’s take baby steps. This isn’t saying, we’re going to change the world, or all companies have to be completely bipolar as to the way they worked before. But I think there has to be that more responsible or community driven support. So what are Clink doing about it? Are we just talking about it? No, we’re offering 1000 free beds for roughly 8000 volunteer hours. So anyone who volunteers for good cause will get a bed, it’s as simple as that. That’s just our first drive – there’ll be other initiatives. We’re looking for partners who can work with us, and again, it’s not about being in hospitality. It’s actually about giving back to the community, giving back to younger people, the 15-30s are ultimately who we’ll find out are the people who’ve been the hardest hit by this crisis.
No, absolutely. I think it’s great. And I think as someone who’s knocking on the top edge of that age bracket now, I think it’s definitely the pandemic has made people more aware of as well about where they’re spending their money. So if you want these businesses to stay open, you’ve got to invest in them and it’s made me realise that huge businesses can close and it could be one of your favourite places and I think it’s kind of that consciousness is definitely going to go forward into 2021 and people are looking at it like, well, are the companies I’m invested in investing in me or invested in the key things I care about? So I think that’s really great.
And you mentioned the survey you did there – how do you keep in touch with changing guest’s needs? Because it’s changing so rapidly and COVID has sped that up a lot.
I completely agree. So I think COVID really has been like a reset or it’s a bit like, you know online sales have exploded through everywhere. Of course, there’s always Amazon and others but it’s shifted and kind of fast forwarded what would take three, five, seven years and instead, it’s been nine months. So I think people’s tolerance has dropped. Certainly for me and for a lot of people, we all know what’s kind of real and what is meaningful in life and what isn’t, because we’ve had to live without a lot of stuff and kind of go, Jesus, that was junk. We didn’t need it, but also, yeah, it’s kind of created this hard focus on what people expect.
So for guests, I think that that’s really sped up. We keep in touch with guests obviously, we’re always talking with them. Our Clinky staff do a fabulous job at understanding their needs. It’s being able to react quickly and also, dare I say, the guests sometimes just know a hundred percent what they want so there’s also a little bit of thinking a little bit wildly and a little bit crazily and saying, well, what could the next thing be? So it’s also I suppose I think having that flexibility, which I think COVID has brought to every business, but it’s applying that with ideas and being willing to experiment and willing to try new things, even if they’re a bit crazy.
I think it’s giving your staff a bit of power as well. Of course there’s other stuff you look at – shall we call it harder research – we would say, look it doesn’t matter if we havethe best events in our hostel, if our places are central – if it’s not clean, if it’s not secure, forget it. You can’t jump to the top of the mountain with all the sexy stuff if the house is dirty, so you have to get the basics right. I think it’s also understanding the different guest segments. So we’ve done quite a bit of work looking at the different guest segments. So, we’ve still got a traveler on one hand who, you know, when I kind of traveled solo as well, and you want to meet people because you’re bored of looking at yourself and talking to yourself and chances are for that, you’re not going to go to a hotel or Airbnb.
You could have, we call them city explorers. People want more culture, want to find new experiences. So it’s trying to have understanding of what your guests needs are and then on a daily basis trying to meet them. It applies to community volunteering, being responsible so there’s no point in a big coal factory in a hostel providing your heat. It’s a cheap bed but there’s lots of pollution. So it’s something we try to keep in tune but we try to keep it simple. We don’t try to over-complicate it.
Yeah. And it was great to hear that you, I think a lot of businesses forget to lead on their staff in that way. I think hostels, especially in my experience of backpacking and staying in hostels, the staff are really at the core of it in a way that’s different to a hotel. They’re really front and centre. And sometimes we’ve worked with businesses where they’re like, well, how do we know what our guests need? And it’s like, well, have you spoken to your receptionist, have you spoken to your team? Because they’re really actually a great source of knowledge on that.
So we mentioned earlier the Clink Creative Arts Programme. Can you tell me a bit more about that and why it’s important?
Yeah. So, this has been successfully running for several years and there’s two parts to it. The first part was support the arts. It was a slightly more narrow view of our broader Shut Up and Listen campaign of supporting the community and the wider basis. So, we still look at musicians, artists, bloggers, and say for up and coming musicians who want to gig around Europe, it’s very expensive, accommodation is a big charge. So it was basically a set up of, you perform and we put you up for free. Then obviously we get a performance, what our guests hopefully get is a local performance, something quite different that they’re not going to see every day. Soit was a way to bring the city into the hostel, but in a natural way.
It was also to help people. We’ve had up and coming artists, we had a night sky that was done in Clink Noord, our Amsterdam hostel by Bogi Fabian, which is brilliant and it was a real Instagram moment. And then with Zoro and Ozzie artists, we put them up in the hostel for a good few weeks in London and Australia. It’s that natural support, but we also want to give experiences that you don’t just kind of walk into and so from an overall guest experience point of view, it’s important that people see different things. And they’re also kind of connected with up and coming artists as well.
Yeah, for sure. So just to move on to the wider hospitality sector, you mentioned earlier about the blurring of lines between hotels and hostels in recent years. And so if we were to fast forward five years down the line, what do you think a typical hostel would look like? What do you think it would incorporate?
That’s a good question. Just once we get out of COVID, I’ll be happy! I think we’ll see a lot more hostels, or properties that look like hostels more, because again, 40% of the population is aged between 15 and 30 and they want a certain, you could call it brand or property. They want something that stands for something. So I think you’ll see a lot of – and this is what hostels have been doing for a hundred years, you know – they’ve generally been helping out communities, they have been really strongly guest-focused. As you mentioned there, they’re kind of flexible. They’re all about helping create an experience so I think what you see is probably more hotels of traditional hospitality coming to that space and probably start copying and applying and of course, in some cases making it better. So you already see hotels having bunk beds, family rooms – I think flexibility is really important now. I think the crisis has taught us that. So being able to turn very quickly from short-stay guests to mid-stay guests, which is something that’s worked very well for us, particularly in Amsterdam. My view on short-stay guests, so our guests would say on average three nights normally and mid-stay guests can be anything up to two, three months or longer. They all want community. I think hotels will take on, I think I suspect a lot of the good things that work for hostels. I think hostels have a huge lead in it, but I think you’ll see hostels change.
I think it’d be harder to operate a older hostel building that doesn’t have air conditioning or a place that’s hard to keep clean. I think those days would probably pass because I think the other change, coming back to the last question, was guest standards are shooting up. That’s probably the other big change we’ve seen where there’s your Hostelworld’s, your Booking.com’s, and you can see it’s kind of a kid in sweet store. You can see everything there, including the ratings and the awareness of what people can get. I think hostels will need to evolve, continue to evolve and change. I think what we all do, we do really, really well, but I think not having modern facilities, safe, clean, secure are just things that I don’t think guests will tolerate much more. I think brands will become quite important the busier the space gets, with other hospitality companies coming in. Being a backpacker boozy bar place I don’t think will work as well. Of course, there’s always a market for it but I think it’s being quite clear about again, what companies stand for and what you actually offer. So I think these are things all hostels do. They’re quite nimble. They can move and change very quickly, they listen to their guests. But I think the overall standards of hostels will need to speed up. I don’t think guests will probably accept, say in five years time, buildings with rooms that aren’t ensuites and don’t have air conditioning.
Yeah. And I agree that hostels are ahead when it comes to community. Definitely. And that genuine community. It’ll be interesting to see whether these big players coming into the space can replicate that in an authentic way. I know we don’t like that word. In the shorter term, what do you think are going to be the biggest opportunities for hostels coming out of the pandemic?
I think there’s this kind of really tight spring that everyone’s been sitting on for nine months and then when we step off it, it will spring forward. Not everyone will spring, obviously for example, my parents are going nuts, tied up at home but not wanting to travel. They’re in their eighties. But if you bring that age level down, people can’t wait to travel – they really, really can’t. People might say jokes like travel is a thing of the past. I know regenerated travel is definitely a topic, which will get bigger and bigger, but I think for our guests, travel is a way of life.
So I think particularly 15-30s travel, we’ll just see a surge through once it’s safe to do so, of course. And I think hostels will be in a really good place. And I suppose another thing, people will be very conscious of how much money they spend and that’s normal when you come out of the recession and say, for example, in Lisbon where we’ve got a property or in Dublin where I live – most rooms in Dublin, I think 83% of rooms are three-star upwards. So hence there’s a big price point and of course everyone’s prices are coming down. But I think for hostels, always traditionally and will continue to offer really good value. And I think that will work well. I suppose it’s that safety and we know shared combinations have been a big pain for us. But with the vaccine etc, younger people are less worried about it. So I think it’s very positive. It’s still going to be tough and we’re not going to be back to full occupancy, I think probably until towards the end of 2022, but it will definitely be a lot better. I think our rates will still be under a lot of pressure next year, but it will seem like a godsend next year, compared to this year.
Yeah, it has been tricky with the shared rooms thing for people, but I think you’re right. Younger people are way more resilient. I think of myself backpacking at like 19, 20 and even some of the things I did then I’m like, oh, don’t do that now, like getting on motorbikes and…
Yeah, well, I always remind myself when I was younger, I was traveling around South America in Chile and I got pulled off a bus by military force pathway.
Oh wow, you just brush it off though don’t you. And then I look back now and I’m like, would I do that? Would I take makes those decisions again? But it works out.
And if it doesn’t, you don’t hear about those stories, so it’s fine.
It’s a nice, quite kind of sinister way to look at it! So finally what’s in store for Clink in 2021?
It’s a good question. Something we’ve all talked about a lot for our own hostels, we tried to keep that positive view of, it will pass, it’s horrendous but it will pass. Obviously it’s about survival for all hostels and hospitality but I think that the future’s very bright for hostels going back to what I mentioned previously, we’re looking to keep on growing. So we’re continuing at the moment to build out our Dublin hostel, which should be over 600 beds and a super-super location bang in the middle near Temple Bar. But not right beside it, a five minutes away so you don’t hear all the noise. We’re going to refurbish our London hostel – that’s starting next week.
We’re taking a longer view on this. It’s not being reckless. We’ve had a lot of hard discussions about what’s the right thing, but we’re looking to grow. I think importantly for probably all of us is that kind of nimbleness that’s been forced on us. We’re looking to kind of keep that and continue to operate on that basis. So we’re much more flexible, we understand guest’s needs, we can react quicker. I think because the hostel opportunity is still immense – it was immense before COVID. It’s just that our lives have been put on pause for a year and a half to two. So our future is bright and we’re charging ahead but with caution.
Great. Well, I’m looking forward to seeing what’s what happens in 2021 and visiting your Dublin site – I’ve only been once myself but it was fun. I felt like I didn’t really get to see the famous nightlife and all of that.
Yeah. Well, it’s probably not a good time to go now, but post-COVID, we’d love to have you over.
Thanks so much for taking the time, Mark.
No, absolute pleasure.Thanks very much for having us on. And I have to say, all the blogs and on LinkedIn and everything you do, I think it’s brilliant. We really appreciate that.
Oh, that’s so nice to hear. Thank you.
For those listening who want to find out more about Clink Hostels, you can visit their website here.
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Header image copyright: Clink.
